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Queen of the Eyelashes |
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By Francesca Miller
I must admit, I've always been a fan, albeit a secret one, of Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner. My first exposure to this remarkable lady was years ago when she was still named Tammy Faye Bakker. I had heard from friends about a petite girl blessed with a Vegas persona, surreal make-up, abundant cleavage, flashy costume jewelry and enormous flamboyant wigs.
Tammy Faye was also the evangelist who was determined to take the real Christian message of "judge not lest you be judged" to heart. She openly and enthusiastically welcomed everyone within ear shot into her voluptuous bosom: saint, sinner, gay, straight, black, white, male, female, young, old, everyone. She laughed, cried, schmoozed, and shared her triumphs and failings with anyone who would tune into a little Evangelical show called Praise the Lord (PTL, which quickly reached a global audience of millions of television viewers.)
It was my pleasure to have a much too brief visit with this ball of energy, when she was in New York promoting her new film, The Eyes of Tammy Faye, a powerful documentary that, if there is a movie-loving God, should be around when Oscar® does his golden nod. The film is a powerful yet very loving look at an icon of pop culture, which was produced by the team of Randy Barbato and Fenton Bailey. These two cutting edge Brits were able to detach themselves from the very real prejudice against evangelicals and look at the facts objectively. They created a fabulous, visual mosaic of a film, a provocative documentary with heart, drama, wit and most importantly, mascara. Tammy Faye, the ultimate phoenix, rose from the ashes, put on a new set of war paint and did battle in the only way she knew how: with love, compassion and humor. After meeting this enthusiastic wonder I felt as if I had known her my entire life. After being energized for days and days after the interview, my only comment is, can someone please bottle her up so we can all have a little piece of Tammy Faye? Francesca Miller: Tammy Faye, what are you doing now? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: I'm being a grandma! (laughs) For seven years my husband (second husband, Roe Messner) and I have lived in Palm Springs ever since we got married. I realized my grandchildren were growing up without me, because we didn't have enough money to see them more than once a year. My grandmother was my favorite person when I was a child. I didn't want my grandchildren to know just what other people said about me in the media, I wanted them to know. I was very lonely in Palm Springs so I talked my golfing husband, bless his heart he's a crack golfer, into moving from the golf capitol of the world to Charlotte, North Carolina, so I can be a grandmother. It's been absolutely the most wonderful thing when those little kids are all around my house, blasting into the pool, laying wet towels everywhere and leaving their stuff everywhere, getting mustard all over the chairs, but no matter what, I can't get the smile off my face when I¹m with them. Francesca Miller: So now you're a Southern girl?
Francesca Miller: Which grandchildren are you spending so much time? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: My daughter's children. Tammy Sue is 30 years old and she has James who is 11 and Jonathan who is nine. Francesca Miller: You had some problems in the past with Tammy Sue when she was a rebellious teen. How are the two of you getting along today? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: When little girls become mamas, they totally change their attitude towards their own mama. That's what happened between me and Sissy. We're are absolutely best friends which is so awesome to me that I can't even tell you how much I love that. I have two little dogs, my two kids, and she takes care of them when I'm away. She, her husband and the kids stay at our house and we have the most awesome relationship. I'm so grateful. Francesca Miller: Are you doing any television in Charlotte? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: No, nothing in Charlotte. I do a lot of Larry King, I'm getting ready to go on his show on the 12th of August. I do Larry King, I do bits with Drew Carrey, I'm getting ready to do something on Rosanne, and some bit work with people who call me. I'd like to have my own show, but really, I don't know how to go about getting one (laughs). But I hope the film will help bring my memory back to people. After all, I've been doing this for over 30 years and think I'd be even more capable now because I've been through so much life experience. I want to help people. It's my goal in life to let them know that no matter what happens in life, you can make it. Francesca Miller: Would you do another "Christian" styled show? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: : Well, (pauses) you know, I'm not going to say I wouldn't but I would probably rather do a secular program if I felt it was a good show and it was offered to me, I'd take it. Francesca Miller: People watched you because you were receptive to everyone on your show, the hallmark of inclusive Christianity. As a young minister, were you always as receptive to everybody?
Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: Yes, and I've always been called controversial and never could figure out why the Christian world calls me 'controversial'. Yet, I understood why because I've always loved people and I never put a tag on anyone. We're all just people and God loves people. When it comes down to what the Bible is all about, it's simply that Jesus died for us and we are to love our neighbor as ourselves. It's that simple and that's what that whole book is all about. People get caught up in their own ideas about what it should be but all the times I've read the Bible, all I can see is love, love, and love. Love thy neighbor as thyself!
Francesca Miller: Tell me about Heritage U.S.A.? It was the fourth largest amusement park in the world, very successful but building it ultimately destroyed so much. What was it about? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: People love Las Vegas. They go there to do their thing and that's great for them but for a lot of Christian people, it's not so great. They could come to Heritage U.S.A. and shop, their kids could be kept busy, go to all the services they wanted to, and they could be entertained. In other words, they could have a lot of fun--Vegas-type fun--but without the drinking or gambling. Francesca Miller: Tell me about the make-up? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: (Laughs) Make-up is fun and I think your face is your own personal thing and no one has a right to tell you what to do with your face. It's your face and if you're comfortable with a face lift, go get a face lift. Look the way you want to look. It's the one thing in life that we can have the way we want it and no one has the right to tell you what to do with it. My son has a lot of tattoos and body piercings and I have no right to tell him anything, it's his body. I love his tattoos, I think they're beautiful. Francesca Miller You always tried for a sexy look. Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: (Cackles) Can't Christians be sexy too? Why not? Just because you ask Jesus in your life doesn't mean you're not a girl or a woman. Christians love sex and I love to be sexy. If I walked around in an old ratty dress, without my hair done and no make-up, I could have preached all day long and nobody would want what I had. Instead, they would say, "Brother, if I have to look like that, forget about it!" But when they found out that you could wear make-up and you can be sexy and have a lot of fun, the Gospel was more palatable to them because they realized that you don't have to give up everything. You don't have to give up fun to serve God. Francesca Miller: How did you get millions of people to watch you every day? What was your secret? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: Everybody became our friends. When I looked through the lens of that camera, I talked to that little grandma who was sitting out there, to that kid who hated the world, to that mom who had six or seven kids and was going crazy, and too that dad who lost his job. I simply talked to just one person at a time. Those are the ones I wanted to give hope to. Francesca Miller: You are a great singer and sold millions and millions of records. Why didn't you ever record something secular? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: Well, because my heart was with the ministry. I was thinking about recording a secular album but Jim Bakker said,”The same way you touch hearts for God, you can also mislead people by singing the wrong lyrics”. I love country music and love to sing it, but so much of it has a negative message, and I wanted to give a positive message. Singing is very much like talking, it's saying what you feel and I want to be honest about what I feel. So I just recorded Singing In The Rain and Zippidy-Do-dah. (laughs) They're really about what I feel, happy songs. Francesca Miller: You mentioned Jim Bakker. How are you two getting along? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: We get along just fine, we're really good friends. We were friends for 30 years and we'll always be friends. Something happened with Tammy Sue one day, which had us both upset. We were on the phone for an hour trying to figure out how to help her. We are like spirits, we really are, (Tammy's voice cracks for a moment) but the hurt that happened between us was so great, that I couldn't forgive. That's a horrible thing to admit, especially if you're a Christian. But I knew I could forgive if I could just get away from the situation and remain good friends. Francesca Miller: When I saw The Eyes of Tammy Faye, I realized you had forgiven everyone including Reverend Jerry Falwell. Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: The greatest gift you can give yourself is to forgive. If I want to be forgiven for my mess ups then I have to forgive everyone else when they mess up. That's why I believe I was able to go through cancer and I am alive today. Francesca Miller: You had terminal colon cancer. How is it? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: It's gone. I'm cured. I chose not to do chemotherapy because I have an awesome immune system and I didn't want to destroy it. Now I'm reading about second cancers caused by the chemo and the radiation! I went the vitamin route and my faith in God. Francesca Miller: They made a TV movie about you called Fall From Grace. Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: Oh my God! Francesca Miller: What was it like to have your life paraded on television? Bernadette Peters, one of the great stars of Broadway, played you and Oscar® winner Kevin Spacey played Jim. Did the producers come to you and ask for help? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: No one did and I felt that was very sad, but by then we were considered public property, therefore you have no say. I've never watched the movie clear through but my daughter felt Bernadette Peters did an awesome job capturing me. She felt that Bernadette was just like me because she cared enough to play me in a loving, kind way. But Kevin Spacey did a horrible job with Jim. He totally portrayed him differently than the way he was. I've watched clips of it on HBO and can only watch it so far and then I have to turn it off. Kevin portrayed Jim as a yelling, screaming maniac. I was married to him for 30 years and never heard him yell at anyone! Jim is a very quiet, very kind man and Kevin didn't do his homework, but Bernadette did and I'll be forever grateful. I want to meet her and thank her. Francesca Miller: How could you handle the scandal? It would have killed most people. Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: You don't know what to do. I felt I was a good wife and did everything but I didn't realize that a wife has the option to say no. Jim wouldn't listen to me. He listened to everyone who was around him, but he was paying everyone around him! We had 3,000 employees and someone would come up and tell him how fabulous and wonderful he was but no one would tell him the truth. I would tell him the truth and he didn't want to hear it because he had to raise so many millions of dollars to keep PTL going. He wanted to believe that he hired good people and everything was going the way it was supposed to go. He didn't want to hear beyond that. He couldn't imagine the people he trusted, good men, doing the things they did. People knew about his affair with Jessica Hahn and held it over his head for years. Therefore, anything they did, Jim allowed it because he was afraid if I found out about it, I'd leave him. I wouldn't have left him. Everyone knew about it but me. Francesca Miller: Have you ever talked to Jessica? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: One time I was on a radio show and she called in. We both started crying and I told her 'It was all right, and that I knew it takes two', and I didn't blame her. If I saw her today, I'd put my arms around her and hug her. Francesca Miller: Could you put your arms around Rev. Jerry Falwell? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: Yeah, I could but I'd be sobbing my eyes out the entire time and asking, 'Jerry, why? Why?' One day he could tell the truth. Francesca Miller: You know that you are a big icon in the gay community and you let everyone in your church including gays, Jews, Catholics, everyone. You were inclusive before anyone else. Could that have been the reason Rev. Falwell betrayed you? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: Maybe. Falwell is very judgmental and he wanted our huge network, the largest satellite network in the world. He wanted it and he wanted our mailing list, he made millions on it. He said the reason that Jim went to prison was that he sold millions of shares in the hotel, but Jerry Falwell kept selling shares in the hotel for months after Jim left. Why didn't he go to prison? Francesca Miller: You could have taken millions if you wanted to between the two of you. After all, you raised over $158 million, yet Jim went to prison because they said he misappropriated $3 million. Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: We never took anything. We lived on the salary the board of directors voted for us, we never took anything more than that. If we had just taken the money from the books, video tapes and my albums, we would have made 10 times the money we made from PTL. We would have made millions but we felt it would have been dishonest because we were on the air. Everything was donated back to the ministry and we never got a penny of it. We only have my gold records on the wall. Francesca Miller: What do you think of the future of women in the ministry? Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: You know, in spite of everything, Jim is invited to preach at churches all over the country but I never am. They will never forgive me, yet I was never charged with anything illegal. As women, we have so much knowledge, so much to change the world. Don't you think women in this country and in this world, still have a long way to go in spite of the strides women have made? It's sad because like most women, I have so much to give and I'd love to share it with the world. Maybe, because of this movie, I will. The Eyes of Tammy Faye is released by Lion¹s Gate Films, and opens in New York on July 21st, in Los Angeles on July 28th, and theaters nationwide beginning August 11th. |
Tammy Faye Bakker-Messner: Yes, but Charlotte is where I raised my children because Heritage U.S.A. (the 4th largest amusement park in world, Jim and Tammy Faye¹s Christian wonderland) was in Charlotte.
© 1997-2000 BEI