May the Force Be with You!

He has been involved with GOAL since 1989, and has been a police officer for almost 18 years, or roughly all of his adult life. In this interview, he asked that we speak more about his own life as an openly gay cop than about the operations of GOAL, and I felt that, frankly, that might make for a more interesting interview.

Edgar Rodriguez: Looking back, I realize that I've always been involved with community on some level, and I've gotten more and more involved as the years have gone by. As a child, I got involved with my community watch group—my mother would get on my case because if there was a car accident outside, I'd be the first one to run outside to see it.

As a kid, I wanted to be either a doctor or a cop. I thought I was going to go to medical school. I became an EMT [Emergency Medical Technician], and volunteered for Jacobi Hospital Emergency Room and the emergency ambulance service team until the Police Department test came up.

Perry Brass: When did you take that?

Edgar Rodriguez: I was about 19 years old. When I was 20, they called me and I was in the [Police] Academy almost over night.

Perry Brass: What made you decide to become an openly gay cop?

Edgar Rodriguez: It was a decision I did not come to very quickly. I was actually very fearful. At the time I became a police officer I was struggling with accepting my own sexuality. I was in a lot of denial still.

Perry Brass: This was when you were 20?

Edgar Rodriguez: I think just before I got on to the Police Department, I began to recognize more and more that I might be gay, but I could not accept it. Whatever society defined as gay for me was not something I could identify with. Even being born and raised in the city, I hadn't any knowledge at all that there was a gay community out there.

I kind of lived an insulated life with my friends in the Bronx and never recognized what was out there. It was traumatic for me before the Academy. I was going through lots of emotional ups and downs, and I think going in the Police Academy allowed me to go into my denial for a while, or at least let me just forget about it.

I was so focused on my studies at the Academy that it allowed me to forget about the pain I was in. I remember thinking that I had to share a deep, dark secret with someone—anyone—and I wasn't exactly sure who that someone would be, because I could not share it with myself. But I knew it was something I should share. I thought maybe I should find a psychologist or a therapist. But I was in total fear that sharing this with anyone would destroy my life—totally.

After I graduated the Academy, I started working in the South Bronx and I had my mind free again to start thinking about myself—and there I was, lifting weights in my basement, and I started thinking about these issues. Then I heard on the radio an announcement that really impacted on me. That day in the basement was significant because the radio announcer said, "If you want to hear more about the 'gay life,' call the Gay Switchboard," and when I heard that, I recognized something for the first time: that I wasn't alone.

There were other people out there like me, and hearing that allowed me not only to acknowledge the possibility that I might be gay, but also to say, "Hey, that's it. That's what I've been struggling with, that I'm gay and I haven't been able to accept it."

I know it kind of sounds odd—to hear a kid growing up in the city saying something like that—but I ended up calling the Switchboard. For the first time in my life I shared with somebody my feelings, and they told me about a bar called Uncle Charlie's.

Perry Brass: So how long after you became a police officer did you become more open about being gay, at least as far as the Force was concerned?

Edgar Rodriguez: After I came out to myself, I started to become more involved with the lesbian and gay community, but in a very closeted manner. I volunteered for the St. Mark's Clinic, which is today's Callan-Lorde Health Center.

Back then it was a little clinic on University Place. Because of my EMT training, I drew bloods and did STD [sexually transmitted diseases] screenings, and it was there that I began to nurture myself towards coming out. But to give you an idea of how closeted I was, nobody knew my real name and I never told anyone I was a police officer. So it was like being in a double closet. My alias was Steve Atherton, and I was an EMT, not a police officer. So [chuckles] I was Greek!

Perry Brass: How did you go from that situation to your present openness?

Edgar Rodriguez: A couple of factors led to that. One, a few years later, I started volunteering for the Hetrick-Martin Institute. At that time it was called the Institute for the Protection of Lesbian and Gay Youth [IPLGY]—and simultaneously in the Police Department, I was chosen for a specialized unit to be a role model for children in public, private, and parochial schools. To teach them about drugs, alcohol, peer pressure, and self-esteem.

So there I was, teaching kids—all I did for three years was do this in the schools—and I realized how many of these kids needed role models. Then while volunteering at IPLGY, I learned that the highest rate of suicide was among lesbian and gay youth. And it hit me that here I was, being a role model in the public schools, but the ones who really need it don't know anything about me: they don't know I'm gay.

I realized that my being in the closet was a very real waste, perpetuating this condition. So that was one of the main things pushing me out the closet.

It almost seems that things were where they were meant to be for me—that is, where they were when I came to that realization. See, the Police Department was working with GOAL for the first time on a recruitment effort to recruit lesbian and gay people. They needed an openly gay police officer to model for the recruitment poster; and that was one of the first ways that I came out.

It happened simultaneously, so these things were all working at once—that gave me the impetus to do this.

Perry Brass: What do you say to people who still say that what you're doing is contradictory, that you should keep your private life in the closet, even though for most men—most straight men, certainly—this is not an issue?

Edgar Rodriguez: First, this is not something that should be kept a secret. We're looking forward to it one day not even being an issue. The reason it has to be more visible is that it is an issue!

As a leader of this organization, I've seen how lives have been destroyed because people have stayed in the closet. Lives have been destroyed, children have committed suicide, they've ended up on the streets, ended up have to prostitute [themselves] to survive—because they were kicked out of their homes or were too fearful of coming out to their parents.

I've seen full-grade detectives—the gray hair and the cigars, the complete stereotype, hero detectives—who have, right in front of me, broken down and cried because they've led their whole lives in the closet. And they're in such fear of their co-workers finding out who they are.

I also feel that, like everyone else, I have the Constitutional right to live free and be able, openly, to share my life with a same-sex partner. Openly, honestly, and not to have to feel that I have to expended energy to remained closeted—to hide myself or my partner.

Perry Brass: One of the stereotypes of cops—or even gay men in the armed forces—is that they often feel closer to other policemen or soldiers than to other gay men. Do you find this to be true of other gay cops—that they are closer to other cops than other gay men?

Edgar Rodriguez: No, I feel that is definitely a generalization. Definitely in my case that is not true. My whole social base has always been community, family, and friends. My connection with the police has been professional. Even as president of GOAL, my level of socializing with cops has been, maybe, gay cops. Not that I don't socialize with cops, but it definitely has been the lesbian and gay community.

Perry Brass: How do you deal with what is perceived—and correct me if I am wrong—but what is perceived as the constant homophobia of the Police Department? How do you keep this homophobia from getting you down?

Edgar Rodriguez: There is constant homophobia. It really depends on where you are, what department you work for, and what you do to address that. I think the Police Department is like the micro-lab of society in general and you can impact profoundly on the environment depending upon how visible you are and how you educate people around you.

The Police Department has a history of being oppressive, of being racist and homophobic and sexist. And because it is perceived as being a macho career and people have these warped perceptions on gender and sexual orientation, there is a lot of homophobia. But I have noticed because of the visibility of lesbian and gay people on this job, that has changed dramatically. Not only has it impacted dramatically on our environment, but on the way the police interact with and treat the lesbian and gay community. That's why it's so important to come out at work.

Perry Brass: Even the Abner Louima situation, where the cops tried to say this was "consensual sex," I think, 20 years ago, that would have gone down instantly. But now a lot of people, I'm sure, even in the Police Department, questioned that, didn't they?

Edgar Rodriguez: This case, in the very beginning—judging from the information I and other people got—it became clear which direction this case was going to go. I had very little doubt in my mind that this happened to Abner Louima the way it did. I thought part of the defense was really horrendous. Using homophobia to assassinate Louima's character was offensive and we spoke out—

Perry Brass: It was kind of like a knee-jerk reaction: "We'll just jump at that last straw right there"—do you think that happened?

Edgar Rodriguez: I'm not sure this was knee-jerk. I think it was well-planned by his [Justin Volpe's] defense, Kornberg, based on their ignorance, their homophobia—and it's very reflective of the homophobia in society, or at least of the people trying to defend this guy.

They hoped that homophobia would benefit this guy and prejudice the jury against Louima. I think today this backfired, because a lot of people spoke out—it's ridiculous they'd use this as a defense.

Perry Brass: Many gay men have a tendency of stereotyping police officers. They have an instinct of hating cops, even today when we realize how far the police have come and how far the community has come. How do you deal with this, if it comes up socially and you tell people you're a policeman?

Edgar Rodriguez: There have been a number of situations like this. One example would be when I'm one-on-one on the street, and I'm wearing a uniform and I'm dealing with someone who immediately responds to my uniform.

One of the ways I deal with this—and it's not something you can do instantaneously—but it's showing them that you're dealing with them professionally and showing them dignity and respect. But I speak the language of people who understand this oppression. I let them understand that I know the Police Department has a history that is terribly oppressive, that's impacted on everyone.

So one of the things that helps is that I do understand where they're coming from; I understand why they feel the way they do towards me. That has given me the patience to reach them; otherwise, I would not.

When they hear me speak this language, it's "Wow, this cop gets it!" So, I'm not just your "average cop." As far as the social level, I've met people in my community—well, I remember going into an Act Up meeting once and an activist wanted to kick me out of the meeting. He said, "You're a cop. You shouldn't be here," and I said, "I'm not here as a cop, I'm here as myself. I'm here because I want to get life-saving information for me and people I love."

Now, he knew who was I was—he knew I was a member of GOAL, and he knew I was gay. But his hatred for me, that I was a member of an oppressive group, was so great that he tried to move me out of the room. He even went around the room trying to garner support to kick me out—and everybody looked towards me and they said, "That's not a cop. that's Edgar," because they knew me. And he could not get enough support to kick me out of the room.

Again, I think that when people see that my function as a police officer is really to move to improve the Department—so it could address the concerns and needs of all communities—that as much as those outside feel we shouldn't be a part of the System; sometimes working within the System is very effective in making change.

That's what I do.

Perry Brass: Well, I understand what that's like, because my lover's a psychiatrist—there are people who don't want to know us because they're sure he's going to have them put away!

Police suicide seems to be at a high level now, though maybe this has been because it's been more exposed. Do you see that perhaps gayness itself, or the fear of it, has been involved in some of these cases?

Edgar Rodriguez: I have no doubt that some police officers have committed suicide because they've struggled with their own sexual orientation—and struggled with their fears of what would happen if they were "unmasked."

I can remember as a young cop—when I first came out—a woman in my neighborhood threatened to "out" me. I was so frightened I did not know what I was going to do. My fear and anxiety from her threat was so great—it's amazing where your mind can be, when you're so deep in the closet and your mind develops this perspective that your life will be completely over if you're "outed."

The thought of what I was thinking of doing to protect myself—I look back now and they were outrageous.

Perry Brass: What would you say to a young gay men who wanted to become a New York City policeman, or a cop anywhere?

Edgar Rodriguez: I strongly encourage young gay men and lesbians to come on to the Police Department—and transgendered people to come on to the Police Department, too. I really believe we have so much to offer all sections of society, and that being gay gives us an added advantage of understanding part of the human dimension that some other police officers may not. That will make us more effective to help others.

I believe we can achieve—and even surpass—others in every area of policing; if they want to be a big chief, for instance. We're heading towards a time where the "glass ceiling" is being removed and there is tremendous opportunity for achievement and growth.

Perry Brass: Being in law enforcement is notorious for tearing apart relationships—the long hours and the stress. What has this done for your own relationships? Have they been difficult to start or hold on to because of your occupation?

Edgar Rodriguez: Stress as a rookie cop is bad—and will impact. When you first get on to the Police Department, you have this perspective of what a cop's life is like, and it is very different from the real world of policing. That adds a certain amount of stress, frustration, and anxiety. That's a process we all kind of go through.

Your first day on patrol, you think everybody's going to say "hello" to you—then some people look at you like you have two heads. That takes away from the image of the kind of respect and admiration a police officer would have. Once you get past that, things get easier.

Yes, some of the hours can be difficult. I remember when I used to work midnight to 8—and when you have a relationship, that's kind of tough. You miss that cuddling at night! But if you really care about having a relationship, or spending time with someone, you'll make the time. You'll both make the time.

Perry Brass: Have you been able to do this?

Edgar Rodriguez: Yes. More so now than ever. Because I now work the kind of normal schedule that most people do. But even when I didn't, yes, I was able to do it. It was with less frequency that I could go out to diner and do what my partner was able to do, but I think when you look at it from a bigger perspective, sometimes "space" in a relationship can be very healthy and you begin to work more on "quality" time than on quantity.

That makes the times when we're together really special. That's what I really value in my relationships. I think now the relationship I'm in is really wonderful, but there's almost too much "quantity" and it's effecting the "quality."

Perry Brass: Many gay men, on the other hand, are fascinated by policemen, and they're drawn to them. Obviously we have men into uniform fetishes and we have the popularity of cop shows on TV. So how do you deal with men who might want to know you only because you're a policeman? Have you found this to be true?

Edgar Rodriguez: I have found this to be true. In the times in my life when I've been single, it's been an effective means for me to meet people [laughs]. I think the reality, though, is when you're looking for someone for the long term, you realize that when people are drawn to you based on how they have an image of you—well, that doesn't last for long. It's usually some fantasy they want to live through; then it's over.

I've had relationships where people have met me and part of the excitement for them was meeting a cop. But then once they got to know the person at hand, they loved that, too. That allowed for a relationship. I've never had a problem with this. I've always been flattered by people's reaction to it. I have taken the opportunity to meet a lot of people, make a lot of friends, as a result of that fascination.

Perry Brass: How do you deal with your own attraction to other policemen? The sense of brotherhood and closeness that this close-to all-male situation has, which most all-male situations have, how do you keep that from becoming sexual?

Edgar Rodriguez: This may be coincidental, but most everyone I've worked with as a police officer, I've had no attraction to. Very few, I'd say in only a handful of cases, have I felt a sexual attraction.

I think because I've been so aware that some heterosexual men are concerned that a gay man would come on to them, I have gone out of my way not to act on that, or give any outward appearance that I do have an attraction; and I've gone out of my way not to be working with those people. So if I have funny little feeling in my gut—[if] I felt it was not going to be comfortable—then I might have selected not to work with them.

Perry Brass: I guess that's the same situation if you were [straight and] working with women, but then I guess you can have very heterosexual men who might find themselves suddenly, amazingly, attracted to you. That has happened to me before in my professional life, where I've had men who never thought of themselves as gay in any way, but who found themselves attracted to me, because I gave them things other straight men couldn't give them—like a lot of attention, for instance.

Edgar Rodriguez: Right. I see. Well, I've never had that fortunate experience!

Perry Brass: Really?

Edgar Rodriguez: No. But it sounds like a nice fantasy that I'd like to live through!

Perry Brass: They've told me I'm like the woman they'd like to have; and the type of man they want to be. [laugh]

Edgar Rodriguez: There have been times when I've been attracted to a police officer, and I would approach them the way I'd approach anyone I'd want to meet. But of course, on a work level, very professionally.

But there are certain cues—you kind of look to see if there is a mutual attraction. I have to look back to see that I have met police officers where there was a certain level of intimacy shared. Sexual intimacy, also. But they were known to be gay. I knew they were gay already.

But if I ever worked with someone and I wasn't sure what their sexual orientation was, I guess I'd leave myself open for anything, depending upon what kind of vibrations I got—I mean, signals.

But without those signals, I never pursued it; and, especially if I felt uncomfortably attracted, I went out of my way to make sure I wouldn't work with them. I'm not sure why I did this; maybe, like when I was working out in the field, I was especially paranoid then. I always wanted it to be perceived that I was above board. I felt like I was under a microscope and I didn't want to give anybody any ammunition—or to feed into any rumors that sometimes follow people because they are gay.

Perry Brass: Do you remember a moment when your being gay and a cop made you feel very, very happy?

Edgar Rodriguez: I feel that way right now. More than ever, I recognize now how being a police officer has given me a unique perspective to some of the problems we have in the city. Not only lesbian and gay people, but people of color, women, and people who've been historically disenfranchised—and how the police play a very strong part in that. I think it's allowed me to speak openly and publicly about these issues, and be heard in a way that I'd never be heard otherwise.

I think as far as my interest in educating people about sexual orientation, being a police officer has given me a unique platform. I'd be irresponsible not to take the opportunity to get on that platform, because people in society always view the police as authority figures. And always, whether they like them or not, they see them as role models on some issues.

I know that my being a police officer has allowed me to reach millions of people. I've been on documentaries, like HBO's documentary "Why Am I Gay: Growing Up Gay In America," and I reached more people in one 15-minute segment about me and my life than I could ever if I was a carpenter, say, speaking in front of a class of kids.

Perry Brass: Has it ever made you sad? You said in the beginning that before you came out, you had a lot of anxiety and depression. But on a more recent level has it made you sad?

Edgar Rodriguez: About the only thing I feel sad about are the things I haven't accomplished yet; opportunities I haven't seized. The fact that I have to work full time as a police officer makes it very, very difficult for me to address concerns I have about society and the gay community and how they interact, or how the criminal justice system interacts with them.

It's given me great insight, but very little time or opportunity to address it. My energy level—I can only do so much at one time. That's the only sad part about it. I almost can't wait to retire, so I can be a full-time activist.

Perry Brass: The police in New York seem now to be under a huge amount of stress, and I can understand this since, often, we have reached the point where the cops are the only, what I'd call "normalizing" agency, in society. Families, the church, and society, itself, are no longer doing it—so—[he shakes his head] but if you don't agree with this—

Edgar Rodriguez: No, I think cops are under a lot of stress—more now than usual. But I don't agree that the Police Department are a "normalizing" part of society's culture.

If anything, I think that what we're seeing with police interaction has shown a level of pathology we have in society, that things are not going well.

The stress the police is under is the result of a number of factors, one of them being we come from a system that is not really the best system to help everyone. We want to think the police are here to stop crime and keep law and order, and that's one thing they do—and thank God for that—but there's also a very real level of oppression, a history of brutality that exists within policing and a history that goes back and still exists today. That remnant is still here today in many ways.

People think that of Abner Louima and what happened to him—and that's an aberration—but real police brutality still exists every day in how some police officers, although a minority of them, handcuff people with tight handcuffs; will hit someone then arrest him, because now they have to arrest someone because they're covering up that they hit him; will talk to somebody in a way that's undignified.

It's unfortunate that there are still a few, and only a few, but they violate that trust that we should have for them, based on their oath to the Constitution.

People are responding to this more and more, so now since a minority of cops are abusing the system, all police officers are suffering. But the system itself has not done what it should have done to address those few. Now its beginning to look at that, and that's the stress we're under.

Perry Brass: Do you feel more isolated because of this stress?

Edgar Rodriguez: No, I don't feel more isolated. I've seen this coming for a long way now. Again when I've addressed people on the street and they've had a problem with me because I'm a cop, I've talked to them and tried to reach them—and I see why they feel the way they do. The other part of the stress is that for the last several years, the Police Department has been putting pressure on cops to produce—more summonses, more arrests—so much that it's become unreasonable. It's impossible to produce like that.

Perry Brass: What's been your greatest reward as a gay police officer?

Edgar Rodriguez: My ability, I hope, to profoundly impact on the lives of lesbian and gay children and adults in society. And to educate people, who are straight, also, about lesbian and gay people, our contributions to society—putting a face on what a lesbian or gay person is.

Perry Brass: And your greatest sorrow?

Edgar Rodriguez: It's that in my lifetime I've yet to see me, myself, and society where it should be in regard to sexual orientation. Still today I'm not treated as an equal—I'm not talking on an individual basis, but regarding marriage and certain benefits I don't get that my co-workers get. Certain things that happen to some people but not to others, based on homophobia.

Perry Brass: Is there anything you'd like to add to this?

Edgar Rodriguez: It's very important that lesbian and gay people pursue their interest in criminal justice, because they will be the ones to make the most profound impact on the system. It's also very important for them to come out and be visible. And just as it is important for police officers to come out, I encourage everyone to come out for the same reasons.