GayToday's scholarly reviewer, Jesse Monteagudo, calls this new book an impressive and quite readable study of gay and lesbian politics.

In this book the veteran reporters showed how both the gay movement and its religious fundamentalist foes were destined to move to stage center in the political arena. He also co-authored Candace Gingrich's memoirs, The Accidental Activist, which was published the same year.

Positioned in the nation's capitol, Bull moves calmly through the maelstrom centers of gay and lesbian politics, his press credentials opening doors that are generally closed to a curious laity.

Chris Bull: It's been a wild decade, Jack. One of my first stories at the Advocate was an interview with 60 Minutes commentator Andy Rooney, who made racially insensitive remarks and was suspended for three months without pay. For a week, Rooney pilloried me in the press.

I was young, and it was very difficult. But it made me stronger, and I've pursued a lot of stories very aggressively since then. One of my favorite stories came in 1992, when I discovered that antigay Congressman Jim McCrery was actually gay himself. I interviewed one of his male lovers on the record. In '95, Republican Rep. Steve Gunderson came out in an interview. That was a big deal for us, because we beat the New York Times to the punch by nearly a month.

The hardest thing about the gay beat is the number of slayings I've covered, from Charlie Howard to Matthew Shepard. Some are really lurid. In 1991, I reported on the murder of a New York City gay man. Police arrested porn star who went by the name Ted Cox, but he was later acquitted. The murder is still unsolved.

I also profiled Jimmy Baines, a young man who was involved in the killing of Charlie Howard, a gay man who was thrown from a bridge in Bangor, Maine in 1984. Baines is one of the few gay bashers to take steps to actually become an anti-violence activist. His attitude is a far cry from what we are seeing at the Shepard trial in Wyoming. Most of these stories are reprinted in Witness to Revolution.

Jack Nichols: I wondered about The Advocate's political leanings after your interview with Vice-president Al Gore was published in mid-September. You were quite fair to Gore, but the cover photo of him used, I thought, made him look a bit deranged. Perhaps this was just my own way of interpreting the Advocate's use of this odd photo of his face.

Chris Bull: I thought it was a good photo. He's really a very handsome man, with a profile like a Greek statue. I really enjoyed speaking to him and flying on Air Force Two with his staff. I have to admit that it was a thrill for a political junkie like me.

Ten years ago, I certainly never dreamed I'd someday get an exclusive interview with a sitting vice president. I found Gore to very thoughtful and articulate on gay rights issues, having spent seven years in the White House getting up to speed on them.

We also interviewed his very formidable opponent Bill Bradley, who is just as thoughtful and articulate and has staked out positions on gay rights to the left of Gore. Since we are going to cover their race very closely, we are not taking sides.

Jack Nichols: You traveled around with Gore and his campaign entourage until you both reached Los Angeles. And, as you say, you rather liked him on a personal level.

Chris Bull: I was especially impressed with the way he handled the gay and lesbian youths he met at the Los Angeles Gay and Lesbian Center. He was very gentle with them. It was a remarkable scene. This tattooed gay kid who'd been living on streets and the button down vice president chatting away like old friends. Again, it was something I never imagined I'd see.

Jack Nichols: How do you feel about what the AIDS activists are doing, following Gore from stop to stop and demanding that his pharmaceutical associates lessen prices for life-prolonging drugs in South Africa? Also, how do you personally feel about his stance on heterosexual-only marriages?

Chris Bull: I think activists are picking the wrong target. Gore is not responsible for the price of AIDS drugs in Africa.

As for Gore and Bradley's opposition to same-sex marriage, it's purely about political expediency. At the moment, it would be hard to be elected president of the United States with a stance that unpopular with the majority of Americans.

It's up to the gay community to create the political circumstances under which politicians can feel safer supporting same-sex marriage and ending "don't ask, don't tell." The movement needs to create more cover for the politicians it supports.

Politics, after all, is a two way street. On a personal level, I got the distinct impression from both Democratic candidates that in their heart of hearts, if not their minds, they support same-sex marriage in principle.

Jack Nichols: What are the principal differences between Gore and his rival for the Democratic party's presidential nomination, former New Jersey Senator, Bill Bradley? Chris Bull: Not a lot. Both are very good on gay rights. Gore has the advantage of experience, spending seven years in the White House working with gay leaders. Bradley has taken an important stand by raising the issue of the inclusion of sexual orientation in 1964 Civil Rights Act in The Advocate interview. Instead of merely endorsing the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which has become narrower every year, he raised the possibility of full inclusion and equality for gays and lesbians.

Previous Interviews from the GayToday Archive: Review: Unspeakable: The Rise of the Gay & Lesbian Press in America Historic Book Highlight Badpuppy's GayToday Quote Straight News: Gays, Lesbians and the News Media Related Sites: Advocate GayToday does not endorse related sites.

It was a bold move, designed in part to make up ground on the vice president. Again, I'm not taking sides, but at a recent HRC dinner Bradley was very eloquent. This is what he said: "One day, the different variations nature plays on the theme of human existence will delight, not frighten, us."

Jack Nichols: Last week Mel White, Jerry Falwell's former ghostwriter, now an openly gay minister, met with Falwell, reportedly to encourage a de-escalation of Falwell's hateful rhetoric. White says Falwell's suffered from cruel gay barbs as well. Protests against this meeting erupted because some feel that Falwell's already been beaten due to his Tinky Winky faux pas. They say that allowing him to pose as a reasonable man is a pat on the back for Falwell. What do you think? Is Jerry Falwell capable of reformation?

Chris Bull: One of the books I co-authored, Perfect Enemies, (with John Gallagher) encourages gay and lesbian activists to avoid resorting to religious bigotry in combating their opponents on the right.

So I believe White is correct when he says that Falwell has suffered anti-Christian barbs from gay activists, and that needs to stop. But at the same time, I think White gave away the store in his meeting with Falwell. As far as I can see, Falwell did not make a single concession, but came away looking compassionate anyway.

The worst part is that Mel described his meeting with Falwell as a way of ending "senseless acts of violence on both sides." When was the last time a gay person beat to death an antigay Christian conservative? Never.

Jack Nichols: In Witness to Revolution, in a 1994 article you wrote about the conservative marijuana champion, libertarian Richard Cowan, you quot ed Dennis Peron whosaid, A libertarian political philosophy does not do any of us much goodoutside the criminal justice system. There are a lot of gay libertarians, it seems, many of them Republican voters. Doesn this quote sort of say that they haven't got much of a chance to be effective as libertarians--in politics? What do you think?

Chris Bull: Gay libertarians have a serious problem. Whether it's gays in the military or hate crimes laws, the ultimate solution to many of the problems facing the gay community--from gay teen suicide to antigay violence--find at least part of their resolution in strong and compassionate government responses.

Jack Nichols: Who are some of your favorite heroes and heroines in the gay and lesbian movement now that you've compiled such an impressive record from The Advocate of their accomplishments?

Chris Bull: My heroes tend to be journalists, writers, and philosophers, many of whom did not make it into the book because they haven't written for The Advocate.

I'm a big fan of James Baldwin. I love the philosopher Hannah Arendt and the writer Mary McCarthy, who was Arendt's friend, even though they were straight. Arendt taught me to be skeptical not just of your opponents but those claiming to be your political friends, and to guard against all congregations of power.

Armistead Maupin's Tales of The City were very important to me when I was coming out in the mid-1980s because it displayed the gay community in such a lovely, warm glow. As a young gay man, it was important for me at the time to know how gentle the community could be because I knew I was going to spend the rest of my life in and around it.

The books, and television series, display our affinity with outcasts and misfits of all kinds, and our complete rejection of those who divide the world into mean-spirited hierarchies. It didn't take me long to fall in love with the community itself. We don't always live up to Maupin's vision--it can be a cruel and judgmental place too--but in general it represents the best of America.

Our editor for Perfect Enemies, Michael Denneny, is responsible for much of the gay fiction and non-fiction we take for granted today. He's also a very smart and kind man.

Jack Nichols: Chris, tell me about yourself personally. How did you find your way into gay press reporting?

Chris Bull: As I said before, I fell in love with the community. It nurtured me at a time when everyone else was rejecting and callous. I wanted to return the favor, and I still do. From a more selfish perspective, it's also just about the most fascinating beat in America. There is no end to its complexity and moral permutations.

Jack Nichols: What are some of the central lessons you've learned over your long career?

Chris Bull: I'm often so busy I don't have a chance to articulate the lessons I've learned. Even though they are pretty close to being cliches, here are a few things I've tried with mixed results to practice.

1.) Don't rest until you've gotten to the heart of an issue. 2.) Don't allow fear to hold you back from doing the right thing. 3.) Embrace ambiguity, difference, and vulnerability.

Jack Nichols: You've written about the late Director of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover. My dad, who was a special agent for the FBI for twenty-five years took me to meet Hoover in his office when I was about 11 years old. Today, I often see Hoover linked with such self-haters as the McCarthyite lawyer, Roy Cohn. How do you perceive Hoover? Was he in any way gay as we use the term?

Chris Bull: Hoover lived with his mother until moving in with his top assistant, Clyde Tolson. The two were picked up every morning at their Washington, D.C., home and driven to work by Hoover's driver in his government limo. They shared three meals a day for nearly 40 years.

I think Hoover developed a psychological insight into other people's personal vulnerabilities because of his own. He knew that almost everyone had a secret, and he exploited them for all they were worth.

One of the great insights of the gay rights movements is that your silence can't protect you. We have become a much more honest, free, and civilized society since Hoover's death in 1972 in part because of the lessons of gay life.

Jack Nichols: What s the best thing today about The Advocate, as you see it? Do you have any other favorite gay publications?

Chris Bull: I'd love to put together an anthology of One, the early Mattachine publication. It made a huge difference. I respect The Washington Blade, which has maintained a serious commitment to unbiased news reporting. Because gay publications are often understaffed and underfunded, their educational quality often varies from year to year. I'm sorry that OutWeek, Gay Community News, and Out/Look have all folded in this decade. They were provocative publications, perhaps too provocative for today's more conservative mores, both inside and outside the community.

Jack Nichols: You have a reputation as a correspondent who strives for objectivity. Is there such a thing? Or are all reports more likely a reporter's subjectively accumulated observations and opinions? Walt Whitman once said, All historians are either liars themselves or they depend on liars for their information. What do you think of such a statement?

Jack Nichols: You live in the same town with Andrew Sullivan, a political theorist who's said that marriage is the gay movement's keynote issue. Do you agree with him, especially in the light of the scary multi-million dollar war chests that have been accumulated by the Religious Right as it sponsors the anti-marriage Knight initiative in California, and after hearing what Bill Bradley told you in your October 12 interview with him in The Advocate?

Chris Bull: No, I don't agree with Andrew at all. He apparently believes that once gay people have achieved equality in the institutions of the military and marriage, the gay movement can withdraw from politics, and to a lesser extent, community altogether. Perhaps this comes from reading too much Hannah Arendt, but power is never given up voluntarily.

You have to fight for everything you deserve, and then you have to fight to preserve it. And that's the way democracy should be--in the process America will become educated about and learn from its gay and lesbian minority. Gay politics and culture are so vibrant and diverse, they can never be reduced to two issues, no matter how important those issues might be.

Jack Nichols: Have you got any opinions about Keith Griffith's controversial site, CruisingforSex.com? I note that hundreds of outdoor arrests have been made nationwide and police regularly report that they've discovered local outdoor cruising spots worldwide through Griffith's on-line listings of them. We don t hear anything about this from HRC or NGLTF.

Chris Bull: I'll have to check out its listing for the Washington area. Only kidding. Personally, I've had a boyfriend for five years. That happens to be what's most comfortable for me. But I know that a lot of people simply want to explore sexual pleasure for the sake of it.

As long as they protect themselves and their partners, I think that's great. One thing I've learned over the years is that sexual repression is a very dangerous thing. The goal should be to stop police from wasting taxpayer money going after gay men, not shutting down a web cite, no matter how ill advised it might be.

Chris Bull interviewing director John Waters

Chris Bull: A San Francisco activist recently described antigay activists who descended on the city as representing "hillbilly politics." Don't resort to bigotry, whether based on religion or economic status, when describing your opponents. It's demeaning to your own cause.

Even though they are often mean-spirited, those who oppose gay rights should be welcomed into the political arena with open arms. As we say in Perfect Enemies, there's no honor in winning a culture war but losing the hearts and minds of a nation.

Jack Nichols: After all the research you've done giving focus to American gay history, what are some of the more enduring themes you'e encountered and which forces, do you think, will remain strong as our perpetual foes?

Chris Bull: If there is one lesson of the anthology, it's that we don't have any perpetual foes. In the 1950s, it was the U.S. Postal Service, which tried to block the gay magazine One from being distributed in the mail. In the 1960s, it was the FBI.

Today, both of those agencies are at the very least neutral toward the gay community. In fact, the FBI has worked hard to foil a number of terrorist attacks on gay people, and has become much more sensitive to their concerns--though it did fail badly in the Cunanan case two years ago.

The U.S. Supreme Court did an about face in less than a decade from the homophobia of Bowers v. Hardwick to the sensitivity of Romer v. Evans. The swing of a single vote tilted the court in our direction.

Who knows what institution will go from foe to friend or friend to foe next. The Pentagon? The White House? The Christian Right? Through every political and cultural swing of the last 33 years, gays and lesbians have kept busy educating the nation. That's one of the few consistent themes.

Jack Nichols: Tell me about my hometown, Washington, D.C. Since childhood I've always loved Washington, and in my 20s, after traveling the East Coast for a few years, I decided then that our nation's capitol had the best gay culture in the country. But it's been 30 years since I've lived in D.C. Do my earlier observations still hold?

Chris Bull: It's one of the great untold stories of American life. Despite its reputation for conservatism, Washington, D.C., is a veritable gay mecca, a thriving community on par with Manhattan and San Francisco.

Despite the gay purges of the 1950s in the federal government, gays, like African Americans, moved to the city in droves because it offered safe employment in the public sector and its related industries. Today, there are a myriad of political, social, and professional groups in the district. I often fantasize that antigay activists will pay a visit to our community here.

What they would find are the spirit of hard work, family, volunteerism and church, a commitment to community that rivals any in America. But because sex is also a healthy part of the culture here and because antigay activists are fixated on gay male sex, the lessons about our common humanity would mostly likely be lost.

Jack Nichols: Chris, I want to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule for this interview. The Advocate's lucky to have a professional newsman such as you are and I wish you a long, even more exciting future. Also, I surely hope that everybody runs right out to buy your latest book, Witness to Revolution.

Chris Bull: Thank you, Jack. You are inspiration to us all.